Hey Family,Welcome to our Morin Family Book Club blog! Our first book is "Three Cups of Tea" by Greg Mortenson and David Oliver Relin.
I was thinking a good way to start the discussion would be to post questions/thoughts and then people can comment on the posts. Or if anyone has other ideas of ways to organize it, go for it!!
Have fun.
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Please respect the opinions of others and their right to disagree with you.
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Behind the computer screen, there are real humans with real feelings; avoid insulting language or belittling statements.
Hi Family, Tristan here on Ali's gmail!
ReplyDeleteSo so glad a lot of people have read the book already, and GREAT job Liz for getting Blog setup (great JOB Mel for suggesting it!). So great job all around everybody!
I thought the book was very provoking for many reasons, and would love to throw out some questions to see what people think?
So to start, with just ONE question, here we go:
What enabled Greg Mortenson to have such a big impact in Pakistan????
Was it because he adapted to the culture so well? Was it because of his attitude/heart? Was it because of his nothing to lose/everything to give mentality?
What does he have that I am lacking???
I felt so challenged that when I look at my life, I really am not penetrating much for the Kingdom or for any good cause besides my own. I am not in touch or very aware of poor people, nor do i have relationships with people in dire need. I tend to hang out with people of a similar "class" and education, in comfortable surroundings, and enjoying the cosyness of Western life... I felt like, if I really want to make a difference, I need to KNOW people who genuinely have need of that difference.
Naturally there are people everywhere who are in need, not necessarily material need, but other needs of the heart and soul, but I think you may relate to what I'm saying???
So, first one thrown out there, and its a little deep! Lets see if we sink or swim with this blog! :P
I think that he got so far for a variety of reasons. One being that he did not force his way on the people of pakistan, but he lived his life to show them love and compassion.
ReplyDeleteanother lesson that he learned and we all forget is that he LISTENED. He listened to the hearts and needs of the people and he listened to his heart. He took to heart the wisdom of theh elders and engaged them in relationship.
Relationships are key issues of life.
I am challenged as well and feel that thru my life I have gone to the down and trodden and then come back and gone and come back a few times. It is a challenge, the world and those in your CLASS will criticzie you for your difference and carrying but they are watching you.
I will never forget the day that I took a girl for the removal of her female organs. I picked her up in the slums, drove her to the hospital at 5am. She had 5 babies, all fetal alcohol syndrum, all struggling with defects and neglect and not a single one of them were with her.
FEW in the community gave a care for Karla. I loved her but took a hit for being out of my class from many, including the local police.
But mark my words they are watching, and they watched Mortenson, watched his WORD and the truth of it, his sincerity and his love for them, who they thought the west did not care for.
He was an ambassador from our nation, and a darn good one. I hope he gets the nobel prize and that he and his wife live a long and fruitful life.
When I worked on Hasting Street in BC and went in the back alleys to miniter to the nickle tricks I will never forget one of the staff saying to me, be real, be yourself, they have nothing to lose and can see right thru you and spot a phoney in a heartbeat.
They responded to love.. The LOVE we exhibit that comes from the LOVE our lives, JC.
I definitely agree with you guys that his immersion in the culture played a big part in his success in Pakistan. He really integrated himself with the people he was working with, instead of working as an outsider. Even little things like drinking the yak butter tea that he could barely stomach, and spending nights talking with (forgot the guy's name) on the roof.
ReplyDeleteI think another reason is his persistence. He didn't really let things that got in his way to stop him. He may have been delayed by things, as happens a lot in developing countries, but he never let these "setbacks" halt his vision. Even getting married, having a kid, being imprisoned, etc., which would make most of us re-think spending more than half our time across the globe in remote villages, wasn't enough to keep Mortenson from his quest.
Mortenson's attitude and perserverence should be inspiring for people who are out there doing similar projects and those who want to but maybe don't think its possible.
I remember eating jamma Jamma and foo foo in Cameroon.. I hated it.. and one time... Lizzy remember we hiked to Mamma Taways and I did something with my jamma jamma when she was in the kitchen... do you remember?
ReplyDeleteIt was horrible but i remembered that it was not polite to refuse the local food.. Gag me but I ate it... does that meke me OK?
Remember the conversation we had as we treked to mammas that day, down the path and said who in our family could do this?
I think the same ones hold true today, the ones that would/could/and not.
I still have relationships with some in Cammeroon and last year decided that i could not change the country, but I could change the lives of children in a family that may one day change a country, so I paid their school fees.
I will continue to do that as needed and pray that one day, for them all things may change, in their way, in their world and in Gods time.
We all have our Pakistans, our Cameroons, our Haiti's and our world around us.
We want to do noble things and go round the world and we often forget that next door to us they are hungry, they need clothes, they are lonely and we could change their worlds and we do NOT, we try to be NOBLE and go around the world.
It takes all kinds. Kids in Applachia Mountains are starving, backwards and illiterate, shall we help them? Shall we go to the Smokey mountains and make school happen?
I have not answers to the world, but I know that there are needs everywhere if we open our eyes, our ears and our hearts.
The thing that seems to recur to me as I read is GM's willingness to work within the local culture wherever he goes - which you've already hit on. But it seems so key to his successes that everywhere he goes, he works with locals, he listens to locals, he does what locals want and need. He could have all the persistence in the world, but had he not imparted his vision for schools to the Balti and helped them take ownership of the project, his efforts probably wouldn't have been so overwhelmingly successful, nor would his influence have grown so far-reaching in the region.
ReplyDeleteI think what I admire most about his work is how he didn't press his (or Western) ideas on the people, but that he respected their wisdom and their beliefs. I know it may sound controversial, but one of my favorite things is how he learns such respect for the Muslim faith. It seems so obvious that had he not demonstrated that respect, the local people would have been more wary of his motives. They may not have been as keen on educating their young girls or building women's vocational centers, etc. And he certainly wouldn't have won the support of local religious leaders.
I just finished the introduction.
ReplyDeleteTristan,
ReplyDeleteTo me, the fact that you are even thinking about what you are doing, or not doing, to penetrate the kingdom and are concerned that you are not associating with people in dire need is a terribly positive sign. I think it shows God has planted a seed of compassion which He will grow over time. I am confident He has you doing what you are doing now so that when time comes you will be in a position to use your skill, knowledge and experience for the benefit of others.
Don't worry about it now. Just concern yourself with your wife and baby (any sign yet?) and rest knowing God will use you for His good work all in the very goodness of time, so He will.
way to go Tony.. 2 posts.. I am glad that you got out of the starting gate and look "forward" to your getting past the Forward...
ReplyDeleteYou do have great insites to share.
Shawn, Causes can be seen in Fiction as well as NON.
Causes can be seen in the stories of real life that fiction is based on as well.
I understand what you are saying, but I came to a strong..er... faith through a country Western Song, it ruined me forever as they say.
God can use anything, any venue, any time, any situation to get us to the CAUSE and thinking of what the Cause should be, and inspiring us to rise to the challenge of "The Cause".
I would not want to read Harry Potter and find a cause however!
JMO
(tristan here)
ReplyDeleteThank you Tony, you couldn't know how encouraging that is to me. I guess I feel a burden and sense of urgency that making a difference needs to be today's business, not tomorrow's, but I don't know people who are hungry or poor, because the people I know are spoilt for choice and with more material things than they could ever need. Given Greg Mortenson's success was based on relationship, I feel that is something I would love to build with a community like the Balti, combined with a cause that provides for their needs, in this case education. Its so daunting to think about on my own, and hence its encouraging to hear as a family how this book has challenged all of us.
Is there a cause, ministry or charity which is close to all our hearts, where we could take on a joint vision as a family to reach out and build relationship in order to bring about the type of positive changes that GM saw in his own work? and if so, how would we go about it?
It seems easier to do things together than on your own...
finally managed to get on here after jumping through a lot of hoops:)
ReplyDeleteAppreciate your thoughts and want to make a comment as well as raise another question or two through it. Most of you have talked of the fact of GM's cultural immersion and learning as key -- I agree he seems to have done a great job of that. But two things I want to point out are 1. he spent a GREAT deal of time away from his family in order to do what he did. What do you all think about the choices/ consequences of these choices for his family? What do you think about his priorities in ordering his work/mission and his family life? 2. he spent a LOT of time in Pakistan - - if we are talking about having a project/place or area to make an impact.... what does that mean? If we all think the reason he was so successful was the time and energy he spent in the culture.... are we willing to put that in or do we think a week a year will be enough?
Just thoughts to ponder.....
by the way... there are probably Pakistani's within an hour's drive of any of you.... any comments on how to do something with this locally?
K (for the Mck fam.) - Max isn't quite up to reading this one yet though we've read the kid's one several times and I'll share his thoughts later. First question he had was -- 'do they really use sticks to write with?'
http://outside.away.com/outside/culture/200812/greg-mortenson-afghanistan-1.html?gclid=CNCVstnPo5wCFSYoawodR1iUjw
ReplyDeleteMortenson has moved on, he is writing book two and risking his life on other fronts. Read from the link posted above.
Last night dad watching CNN saw him speaking about it and how it has impacted others including soldiers who are now engaging in relationships and doing much the same thing.
You may find that program on CNN on line. That is where I found the link I am posting and found it most interesting.
In doing so, I thought, well.. here are lots of people contributing to his cause, and before we have a cause we maybe need to feed into someone elses. I do believe in that principle.
So how about if we send money for children who use sticks to get pencils or some such thing.
As for Max's comments... I hear those with great heartfelt emotions.
I said to dad I hope that Mortenson gets the Nobel Prize but that his wife and family get the glory as well.
I admire people who can leave home in service of country and contury men and humanitarian efforts and sharing faith of any cause.
It is a great sacrafice not only for those going but those left behind. Anything worth doing is worth doing well and all requires sacrafice on someones part.
As for the time a week a year? when you get to aging there is never enuf time, when you are young it seems like there is forever, but it goes quickly and if you do not do it, perhaps there will never be enuf time even in a life time to do your cause.
I admire his passion to stick with it in spite of adversity and the hardships of being away from family and friends and familarity of life.
So it comes to the age old question? Will you give your life for others or try to keep it selfishly for others.
His journey began for another, to put a trinket of rememberance for someone elses life on a mountain. It has turned a whole different corner from that little cause of begining.
JMO
"This school is your school," he says. "It is not a gift of the American government but of small people like yourselves, across the United States, all of whom gave small donations so that this school, and others like it, can be built in remote areas where education is needed."
ReplyDeleteHe glances briefly over at Khan, who listens carefully. "A wise man in this area once told me that these mountains have seen far too much killing, and that each rock you see represents a mujahedeen who died fighting either the Russians or the Taliban. But now that the fighting is finished, it is time to build a new era of peace. And the first step is to take up these stones and start turning them into schools."
This is from the article posted link in mail on on last blog entry.. and here is my 2 cents worth....
We can sit back and read at our leisure, since we have all gone to school and learned such, and we can post on this blog for same reason, but until we actually put feet to flight it is just that, reading and leisure with no benefit.
So how about if we buy into a stone for starters, write a note to Mortenson on how he has impacted our lives and a check for a STONE to make a difference. It is a start, a downpayment of sorts until we come up with a cause of our own, or else we are simply sitting at our leisure, when we have time to read out of our busy lives, and we are just blogging when ever we feel "led", and in the end that in itself is just pointless.
Yes I agree that you need to put your families first but NOT forgetting that for others there is not the time. If you wait till your children are grown and think someone else will do it, there are girls who will grow up with NO education while yours are educated.
Yes I am in favor of raising your kids but you never give up helping others along the way and only focusing on yours. That to me is selfish, you do not need to go to Pakistan or Afganistan but to your local village. You will recognize the waif that lives there and needs help, you will see them in your pews, in your park, in your grocery.
Maybe it is the boy or girl that sits on your couch and watches TV after you go to bed, or eats at your dinner table or cooks in your kitchen. Or maybe it is the one that is served across the bread line while your child stands dipping them out mashed potatoes. I do not advocate taking care of only YOUR wife and kids, when you can take care of the wayward.
JMO
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/03/three.cups/index.html
ReplyDeletemore reading
Firstly, does anyone know if there is a way to reply to individual comments? So it's more like a discussion board with threads? It could make sorting through posts easier and more organized.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, in response to Tristan's sense of urgency. I think it's admirable and exciting that you feel that desire to do something NOW. In a way, I think that's a great thing b/c it provides impetus to get up and take action. But when circumstances (like a brand new baby!!!) don't permit direct action, I think it's important to remember the people who supported GM and his work. People like Jean Hoerni (or however it's spelled) who were perhaps equally moved by the plight of the Pakistani children and donated time, or the congresswoman who was moved by GM's talk and donated her political connections and time to provide a platform for GM in the US government. I know it's not a consolation necessarily, because I think that we so often want to feel the excitement and the satisfaction of actually digging in and getting our hands dirty. So I don't mean that the one is a substitution for action on the front lines, so to speak. But it provides a way to begin to make a difference and perhaps even beginning to establish relationships and connections that will be important in the future.
Thirdly, in response to Kimberly's comment about prioritizing family, I found it somewhat troubling that he left his wife and kids for such extended periods of time to go of to a rather unsafe region of the world. I can imagine that from her perspective it must have been frustrating wondering which he loved more, his family or his work. Then again, I would probably have criticized him had he decided to take his wife and babies along to a dangerous place ... so I guess it's a no-win situation! :) It seemed to work for them ... somewhat. It was also troubling to read about the hours upon hours he devoted to his work even while in the States. It seemed like there may have been tension in the marriage and family b/c of that. It's a tough question - one could argue that he does so much good for thousands of people that it's worth the personal sacrifices.
It's a question that I've been thinking a lot about personally. I'm all gung-ho for jumping on a plane and heading to Afghanistan or Nepal and doing basic health work next fall, but if it means missing out on time with my nephews and niece and missing lazy days of games and Christmas cookies in my pajamas then I'm far more hesitant. I don't want to miss the time the McKinnies are in the States, but ... is that the choice that has to be made? Just thoughts ...
Melissa said:
ReplyDeleteFirstly, does anyone know if there is a way to reply to individual comments? So it's more like a discussion board with threads? It could make sorting through posts easier and more organized.
I have a hard time just posting so know that I have NO clue of the HOW to reply. But if someone figures it out, I am willing to give it a go, As the English boys would say.
Oh and by the way, Dad and I feel the same tension, we want to sell the house and be free of work and responsibility, but that means leaving family and relationships and contact, so we stay and work out butts off. But we cannot keep up the pace forever, so guess when the time is right you know if you should go or stay and then you live with the decision that you have made.
ReplyDeleteLife is too short to not "JUST DO IT!"
Kimberly here again -- - I tend to agree more with Melissa than mom here about not being settled with the separation from his family and I too noticed that even when he was in the States he was very absorbed in his basement office and still not really there in the States. I admire what he did - but wonder... if it really is his cause and passion - why did he get married? If it is his family's passion - why didn't they look for a way to all be more involved and there.
ReplyDeleteTake that one step further from getting married and having a wife (who is an adult that could knowing walk into a situation and realize what that involves) but then add children and what voice do they have as to whether they have a father who drifts in and out because somebody else is 'more important' than them. It would be hard for a kiddo to get their head around that I would suppose.
I am all for the cause and for going -- obviousvly. But I believe that it ought to be the 'whole family' finding a way to do it together and maintain the nuclear family. It would be different if it were a few weeks here and there - but it isn't.
If I remember right from reading the book - will have to go back and look - but seems that GM is one who would rather do it himself and do it the way he wanted even when friends/ sympathizers advised him otherwise. THis is a surefire way to burn out and I'm not current enough to know if that has all changed since the book and the cause became so popular and there are plenty of folks who would happily come alongside now.
I think that one way to change the format would be for Liz to make us contributors and then we could post and make comments on various folks postings. For Example - I could have written my new questions as another post and people could have responded to that topic as comments to that. As far as commenting on comments.... I don't know as we've gotten WAY behind on the blogging world. Haven't posted on Max's in over a year now.
ReplyDeleteIF you do reading on line or magazines or catch up on his life you will find that his children are well and happy and helpful and supportive.
ReplyDeleteHe and his daughter do a lot of traveling together, I think as a family the decided it was worth it, in reading at least I find that.
He has an office with a staff and delegates all over. What works for some does not work for others. We have no idea other than what they report on how it works for them as a family, but he may have considered that he did not want his family at risk in the places he goes as well, and frankly they could not endure the pace that he sets, and he has gotten more done that governments, agencies, nations and all that have done, and set a precident for others to come and do as he has done, and that is working as well.
So whatever works for them, must work and work for the country, since he has gotten awards that NO other american has gotten in countries that are hostile at times to Americans. He has nations protecting him and making sure that he suceeds. I think his wife knew it from the begining, that she would share him with the world and take what was left.
I think many families and marriages do that even if they do not go abroad, they share and make it work.
Ruth Gragham shared her Billy, you might want to read her journey. Great men or women who make great human strides and make sacrafices leave behind something, be it family, friends or life as usual, and that is how great things are accomplished. The giving and taking and sharing with others.
JMO
ok, here I go posting again, and giving you my 2 cents worth, you get a lot for two cents these days...
ReplyDeleteSo you all know that dad and I spent a lot of time fishing, and one day this occurred to me.
Every time we go out, we are to have a check list and a few days we have missed a thing or two on our list and been reminded that a check list is a GOOD thing..
I would get our rods out as he zoomed us over to "the wall", then get out the bait, the tackle and get set up while still zooming. It is dads job to get us set up, get the live well running (that is the tank that has a pump that he turns on and it lets in fresh water every so often) and into that tank, when ready go the fish that you catch, all flavors sizes and varieties..
so it was that ONE day we had bass, perch and walleye in the LIVE WELL.. and this thought came to me.
It is a big lake, 34 or so miles long and a couple miles wide, and in that lake are LOTS of varieties of fish that we did not catch, I am sure that the fish are aware of many of the differing species though and they swim close to, away from, eat up or stay away from each other.. but they are most likely aware of a variety that lives in the lake from north to south and east to west.. OK
work with me here, pretend that they do..
and so it is with us as humans, we are aware of many cultures, religions. ethnicity and variety around the world.. OK LIZ here goes the breaking of the rules....
so we are just aware that there are Hindu, Muslim, Animists, Jew, Gentile, Christian and you get the point.. We are all swimming in the lake and aware that there are other species out there.
We avoid, come together, put up with, eat (so to speak) each other up. know a little about each other and just a general awareness of who is out there around the world.. and then.. we get caught and we get tossed in the live well with a few other varieties and what happens..
Well in the case of the live well that day, I had a LARGE walleye and a small perch, dad had a few fish including some bass.. and I said.. "Hey I wonder if my big walleye ate my little perch"..
Walleye eat perch for lunch on a regular basis...
So I opened the tank and there they all were, swimming around in that LITTLE tank, learning how to get along, tolerate each other, bump into each other and not eat one another.
And I thought of us humans who some of get thrown into the same LIVE well and how we react.. and then I thought of MORTENSON, and how he sort of got caught, put in a live well with Pakies, Afgans, rebels, taliban, tribal leaders, presidents, ect.. and how then some other Americans like his wife, news anchors, congressmen/women got involved and how they all got along.
Now maybe my perch was a bit scared of the walleye in the beginning but they were still alive and WELL in the live well when I drained the water and took the knife to them..
so the point being... we can all learn to live in a small space, same country, or a large lake, same world and get along.. we just need someone to check the list and turn the pump on to give us fresh water/ideas now and again.
so there is my 2 cents worth..
Dec 15 -- Wed - Dec 16
ReplyDeleteGreg Mortinson is in Seattle on these days, how about a car pool?
Perhaps those of us in the Seattle area could plan for this event, on one of the two days.. and perhaps we could take a "Family Donation" and notes. Maybe we can discuss this happening here on this site. Maybe we can fill a tea cup with coins of substance. Maybe Tony can be our spokes person, and maybe we can all make an awareness to our e-mail address book and solicite funds and contributions.
Seattle, WA (LB) - EVENT PENDING
http://www.threecupsoftea.com/events/calendar/
also visit.... the official web site of Greg Mortenson @
http://www.gregmortenson.com/welcome.php
I heard this on NPR today, but not all of it. Thought it might be interesting and certainly it relates to the book, so I'm posting a link where you can listen to the story if you choose.
ReplyDeleteAnd by paste I mean not at all b/c it's not an option....huh.
http://www.worldvisionreport.org/Stories/Week-of-September-12-2009/Ghost-Schools
ReplyDeleteahhh...there we go. :)